The Four Tendencies –
What’s your natural response to expectations?

Live on Facebook – Friday, Nov 20, 2020, at noon Pacific Time
A conversation between Dana Stark and Mari Craig

DANA: Hi, everyone! And welcome to today’s live: “The Four Tendencies – What’s your natural response to expectations?”. This is my first live with a guest! A dear guest 😊

We expect our conversation to be around one hour’s time, so please make yourself comfortable and grab a drink.

Please say hi to my dear friend Mari. Mari and I have been friends for almost 30 years, from the time we lived in the same neighbourhood in Bucharest, Romania. Mari now lives in Scotland, near Glasgow. She is married to a Scotsman, and she has one daughter. Mari, can you please tell us more about what you do?

MARI: Hello, everyone! I’m so happy to be here, and I’m really grateful to Dana for inviting me! I hope our time together will be very useful to everyone watching. 

I am a translator by trade, and I also used to work as an interpreter and English language tutor. Nowadays, I am mainly a housewife and home educator, and I also write and make art. 

Thanks to Dana’s encouragement I now have a website with a blog to house both my writings and some of my art pieces. These days, my main subject of reflection is about how we can live a life renewed by Christ’s redemptive work and rooted in His identity, while gracefully handling everyday expectations and demands.

DANA: I love your website’s mission statement and I encourage everyone to take a look at Mari’s new blog! You can find it at mariemilycraig.com.

We’ll now go on to talk about today’s subject, and if people have questions for Mari, I encourage you to write them in the comments, and we’ll take some time at the end to answer them.

As announced, our discussion today is about The Four Tendencies framework – can you give a quick introduction for people who may not be familiar with it?

MARI: Yes! It is a personality framework developed by author Gretchen Rubin. You can find all the information you need on her website, gretchenrubin.com, and in two of her books: Better Than Before and The Four Tendencies.

So: a few years ago, Rubin had a great insight about the fact that people react differently when they are faced with expectations. One day she was talking to a friend. The friend was sharing about her desire to take up running again. She had been on the running team in high school, and she had been doing great. She showed up for training with the team without fail. Now that she only needed to do it for herself, she somehow couldn’t manage to anymore.

Rubin realized that her friend’s predicament was caused by the fact that she reacted differently to external expectations vs internal ones! When her coach and team expected her to show up for training, her urge to meet outer expectations prompted her to do what was expected of her. However, now that she had no one to please but herself, she experienced resistance to her own inner expectations to take up running again.

Gretchen Rubin observed not only that people’s instinctive response to expectations will greatly affect their actions, but also that a person can have opposite responses to inner vs. outer expectations!

These simple but profound observations about human nature show us that people can belong to four different categories: those who have a strong urge to meet both internal and external expectations (these Rubin named ‘Upholders’), those who instinctively feel compelled to meet outer expectations but resist inner ones (they are the Obligers), those who favour meeting their own expectations but resist external ones (the Questioners) and those who resist all expectations alike (Rubin called these ones Rebels).

This is how it ends up looking from the outside:

Obligers find it extremely hard to say no to people. Say a friend is asking them for a favour. Even if for the Obliger it is very inconvenient to help their friend, it’s very probable they will say yes. They might feel very annoyed with the person, but they will still leave aside some of the things they wanted to do, and help out. 

But when it comes to things they would like to do for themselves (for example, to exercise more, or to have more time to relax), those get pushed back and pushed back, until there’s no longer room for them on the schedule.

Obligers are the people who always seem to put others ahead of themselves, or even strangers ahead of their own family, because it’s almost like their families are part of themselves. That’s how they can end up working late on a habitual basis, and always feeling bad that they don’t spend enough time with their spouse and kids, but to them it feels almost impossible to say no to the boss.

Now, Upholders are the people who ‘get on with the program’: both the general program, and their own. They usually are the ‘organized’ people of this world, who seem to have it all “together” – they are the ones who naturally seem to have a great handle on things. They might feel something like: ‘If I can do it, how come they can’t do it? They are not disciplined enough, they are not serious enough’. Compared to other people, Upholders find it easier to commit to a certain course of action, and then to stay on course. They are the ones for whom perseverance with habits comes very naturally. They love it when there are clear rules to be followed, because they need to know they are doing things correctly.

They can sometimes come across as difficult people: because they usually have very high standards, and they themselves work really hard to meet them, they can seem impossible to please.

Rebels often come across as difficult people too, but for different reasons. Those around them can feel like ‘Ugh, these guys do what they want, when they want, how they want, I can’t get them to do what I want!’. Maybe you’ve heard the phrase ‘It’s like herding cats’ 😄 – I think that’s how it feels many times to people who are working with Rebels, especially to parents of Rebel kids 😊

There are lots of Rebels out there who are great team players, but I think even they manage to ‘rub many people the wrong way’, because they are non-conformists by definition. Some people love how ‘out-of-the-box’ Rebels are, but for others (especially for Upholders), it can give rise to very uncomfortable feelings, because the Rebels tend to ‘not play by the rules’! 😊

Questioners always need good reasons for their actions. And good reasons generally means research. They are the people who, when it comes to buying a new washing machine, read all about the different models, read all the reviews, consider all the possibilities, weigh up all the options, and still end up postponing the decision, because they feel like they haven’t yet got all the information they need. 😊 Paradoxically, they are also big on efficiency, and they hate wasting time or having to do certain things because of somebody’s arbitrary decision. 

Funnily enough, Questioners are the most likely to question this framework! They will say things like: ‘I can see myself acting a bit like all of these tendencies in different situations!’ or ‘Where’s the scientific research on this personality framework?’ 😄

I’m sure the scientific research will start to happen at some point, even though for now the framework is all based on simple empirical observations and common sense 😊

But the thing about the Four Tendencies is that it’s not really about ‘how we act’ – everything I’ve been describing so far is kind of how they look from the outside, or how people belonging to different Tendencies end up behaving as a result to their knee-jerk reactions to expectations!

Even our own subjective experiences, our own internal dialogue, often obscures the fact that some of our feelings, thoughts, attitudes, actions, spring from our natural impulses regarding expectations.

For example, an Obliger might feel this about themselves: ‘I’m an altruistic, self-sacrificial person. I love people, I love to help. I’m not happy until everyone else is happy. It’s just there aren’t enough hours in the day for me to do everything.’ 

Or:  ‘Really, how could I have said no to that request? I didn’t have an option!’ 

Or ‘He should have known I’m really busy with such and such. But I just couldn’t bring myself to say no.’

Or: ‘I can’t relax until I know I’ve done everything I had to do.’ It’s funny how self-care often seems not to be on their list of what they ‘have to do’. 😋

In all that, it’s simply not apparent to them that external expectations have this great constraining effect on them, and that they actually resist their inner expectations. To Obligers, it just feels like: ‘I simply don’t have time for myself’. 

Now speaking of time, for the sake of time, I won’t go through specific inner dialogue examples for all the other Tendencies – although it is very interesting, and if people would like us to go more into it, or if they need help with identifying their Tendency, we can always have another conversation, or we can discuss it all in the comments.

Of course, what I really recommend, for everyone who is interested in learning about the Four Tendencies in much more detail, is to head over to Gretchen Rubin’s website, gretchenrubin.com, and get her book titled ‘The Four Tendencies’ 😊

But my point from earlier was that what is at play, most often without us being aware of it, is the simple fact that we react differently to inner and outer expectations. Expectations have a strong effect on us, they have the power to either stir us to action (even begrudgingly), or the opposite. For example, the effect expectations have on Rebels is that they might openly challenge them! Or they will stubbornly dig in their heels, or they will quickly find any excuse they can in order to evade them.

Maybe this would be a good moment for me to come out and say I am a Rebel 😊

DANA: And so am I – we’re two Rebels here. And I know there are other people in the group who are Rebels, because once when I posted the link to Gretchen’s quiz there were many people sharing their result as being “Rebel”. 

MARI: Yep, there are lots of Rebels out there! It’s important though to keep in mind that having Rebel as your tendency doesn’t automatically make one a rebellious person. Rebels can be great at cooperation, too. Gretchen Rubin makes a great point about Rebels – it was actually a huuuge eye-opener for me! I don’t know how she came to this conclusion, but it’s spot-on. What she says is that Rebels don’t do something because it is expected, but because they want to, it’s their choice. Rebels are all about freedom of choice. And her big insight was that for Rebels what matters is ‘to express their authentic self’. What sets them into motion, rather than expectations, is their sense of Identity and their Values.

DANA: Indeed! That’s something very important to keep in mind, and we’ll come back to it later. But to recap, the Tendencies then are all about how we react to expectations.

MARI: Yes, and it’s amazing what a difference it makes if our natural impulse is to meet expectations, or if it is to resist them.

Because it makes a great difference if at any point you are having to go in the same direction as your natural inclinations, or on the contrary, do the opposite of what your instincts are telling you! It’s like rolling a stone down the slope, or having to push it uphill.

A great application of the Four Tendencies, and that’s what Gretchen Rubin talks about in her book ‘Better Than Before’, is in the area of forming new, healthy habits. She says that when it comes to forming habits, there’s no one-size-fits-all. In her book ‘Better Than Before’ she describes many different habit forming strategies, and which ones work best for which Tendency. It’s a great approach, to choose strategies which work with our natural inclinations!

Too often, self-help books or programs give advice such as: sign a contract with yourself, make a commitment, set SMART goals, put some accountability and check-ins in place, track your progress, etc etc.

That’s all well and good for some of the Tendencies – for example, Gretchen Rubin stresses the importance of outer accountability for Obligers, or – we could easily see how tracking one’s progress would motivate an Upholder, who loves to see an uninterrupted chain in their habit tracker 😊 – but both of those things would backfire big time for a Rebel!! 

As soon as you tell a Rebel: make a commitment, sign on this line, make a contract with yourself – nah, you’ve lost them! That’s the last thing they feel like doing.

The ‘contract with self’ thing doesn’t really work for Obligers either: their tendency is to keep the promises they make to other people, but not the promises they make to themselves.

I wish all self-help authors were aware of The Four Tendencies. Then maybe we wouldn’t have so many frustrated people, who are trying their best to make changes for the better in their lives, but are wondering why the advice never seems to work for them.

DANA: Yes, and it’s not only about self-help books and how we try to work for our own personal and professional development. I think Gretchen’s discovery about how people react to expectations can help managers, leaders, coaches, even parents – everyone who is interested in helping others grow and change for the better. 

The Four Tendencies framework helped me improve my coaching practice in many aspects. For example, in every training program for becoming a coach (and I don’t know about any that’s different, but maybe there is) we are taught that people want accountability in order to make the change they are choosing in their life. But the reality is for Rebels accountability can be counterproductive. So now I ask my clients if they need me to keep them accountable or not. 

So, coming back to our instinctive response to expectations, often we’re not aware that this matters so much. But it does matter, because expectations are everywhere around us, aren’t they?

MARI: Yes. At any given moment, we’re basically swimming in a sea of expectations. Our whole world and society runs on them.

I really encourage people to take time and learn to observe and identify expectations in their everyday life, and see just how much they are a part of the fabric of all our relationships and transactions, the way we do business, the way we try and make progress with our projects.

I was writing about this recently on my blog, and I want to quote a few lines from one of my articles, here’s what I wrote: “Expectations are everywhere: enshrined in law (from Thou shalt not kill to Twenty’s plenty), posted on walls and doorways (Please switch off your mobile, or Staff only), presented to us on paper or in electronic form (as contracts, tick boxes, or Pay now buttons), verbalized (The meeting starts at 3), and tacitly assumed (or expressed only by means of a look or, even, a raised eyebrow).”

Yes, so, they’re all around us. And because of our natural reactions to them, it means then that, countless times every day, we’re going to experience a sense of obligation, even coercion, to act in certain ways, or we’re going to experience irritation when being faced with them.

I mentioned coercion there. That’s something else we need to be aware of, in relation to expectations: because of this sense of pressure that they bring for everyone, they can be used to manipulate people, to make them feel coerced or forced to act a certain way.

If someone, say, is particularly susceptible to outer expectations – they automatically feel obliged to meet them – you can see how that could easily lead to them being exploited by people laying expectations on them.

Of course, working with someone’s Tendency doesn’t need to be exploitative or sinister:  a knowledge of the Four Tendencies can be good and useful in our relationships with other people – if we are aware of their Tendency we can do our best not to create in them unnecessary resistance through the way we relate to them. 

For example, if we’re dealing with a Rebel, rather than using words like ‘You should…’ or ‘You have to’, which create needless resistance, it’s a lot more helpful to say: ‘Could you please…?’. As Gretchen Rubin says, Rebels won’t do something because you expect them to, but they will do it out of love 😊

We also need to pay attention not to put people under unnecessary pressure if their tendency is to feel a strong urge to meet our expectations. For example, in the case of an Obliger: a casual mention that I would like something or other to be done can make my Obliger friend or spouse or child feel that they have to do that thing for me. For me it might have been a throwaway remark, but for them it creates pressure and a sense of obligation.

But, in contrast to all of that, there’s another point I want to make. And it’s really important. Knowing about the Four Tendencies is useful mainly when it comes to changes we need to make in ourselves.

So, rather than focusing on how we can employ our knowledge of the Tendencies to get other people to do what we want, I think the most important way we can make use of this framework is to become aware of what our natural impulses are concerning expectations in order to bring them under submission to Christ.

This is in the end what it’s all about: as followers of Christ, we have made the decision to belong to the Lord with everything we’ve got. Everything about me, all my strengths, all my weaknesses, all my talents and gifts, all my natural impulses, need to be submitted to Him. 

And the only way we can bring our natural impulses into submission to Jesus, is if first of all we are aware of them, if we are aware of our inclinations and tendencies.

DANA: Indeed, this is our goal as followers of Christ and I love how you said it: Everything about me, all my strengths, all my weaknesses, all my talents and gifts, all my natural impulses, need to be submitted to Him. 

MARI: Yes, and this is something you and I talked about together a couple of days ago: the fact that we can think of our Tendency as a vulnerability.

The way we instinctively respond to expectations makes us vulnerable to particular feelings, attitudes and patterns of behaviour.

As I mentioned before, what can happen is that, say, Upholders, because they have a strong urge to meet both external standards and the ones they have set for themselves, can become very anxious, and, out of fear that somehow they might fall short, they can start to follow rules very rigidly, and feel very insecure and anxious when there’s a sudden change of plan, or there’s uncertainty around what they need to do.

Obligers, like we said, are vulnerable to exploitation, and, as a consequence, to great resentment towards the people who impose various expectations on them.

Rebels, because they resist not just other people’s expectations, but also their own, are vulnerable to tremendous self-sabotage, very often without realizing it! Because they hate the pressure of obligations, they fall prey to procrastination and things like that.

Questioners are very vulnerable to decision fatigue. Their inner expectation to make correct decisions can lead to endless research and analysis paralysis. They can fall prey to devoting so much energy to identifying the ‘best’ course of action, that they often fail to take action!

DANA: This is all fascinating stuff. Tell us again where people can go to find out more about The Four Tendencies, if they want to!

MARI: Yes. The first port of call is of course Gretchen Rubin’s website: gretchenrubin.com. 

There are two books in which she goes into the Tendencies in great detail: the first one is Better Than Before, which is all about habit-formation strategies that work best for people according to whether they are Obligers, Questioners, Upholders or Rebels, and another book titled simply The Four Tendencies. She also has online courses about them, and she also does a podcast, called Happier, with her sister, Elizabeth Craft, and they often talk about the Tendencies. 

There is a quick word of warning though: because Gretchen Rubin herself is an Upholder, a lot of people who have read her books or listened to her presentations, are often left with the impression that being able to ‘readily meet expectations’, that’s Gretchen’s phrase, is a great quality to have, but resisting them – not so much 😊

I’ve come across countless comments from Obligers or Rebels who feel as if something is wrong with them, or there is a great disadvantage to the fact that they resist inner expectations.

In reality, of course, there is nothing wrong with the natural impulses we have! They are what they are, and we can use them for good or bad, none of the Tendencies is better or preferable to the others, each of them has their own associated struggles, and, in fairness, Gretchen does mention that.

In her materials you can find out more about these specific struggles, such as ‘Tightness’ – for Upholders, or ‘Obliger Rebellion’. You can also find out how the Tendencies can overlap with each other, and so on.

Of course, if you’d like to hear more about the Tendencies from a Christian perspective, come to my website. 😊

Something else that’s a bit different about my approach is that I mainly write about alternative means to making progress, rather than focusing on expectations.

Because expectations have such different effects on people, for a large percentage of the population, choosing to focus on meeting goals and standards can backfire. 

But choosing to focus on something else, such as Identity and Values, helps all of us without exception. There’s no one-size-fits-all in how that will look in practice for each of us, but there are some fundamental principles that can help all of us because we’re all humans, designed by God in a certain way and with a certain purpose, and that is: as His image, and for His glory.

And I know that Identity and Values is your main focus in your coaching process as well.

DANA: That’s right. And it works so well because I believe every Christian lives their best life when they live out of their Christian identity, when they honor daily their values. 

I know there is one more distinction regarding expectations that you’re keen to tell people about.

MARI: Yes, and it’s something I’ve never heard Gretchen Rubin mention, either on her podcast or in her books. But it is extremely important to be aware of.

It is the fact that there are two kinds of expectations: not just inner and outer, two different kinds. 

Expectations can be legitimate, or illegitimate.

Somehow it seems that many people never stop to ask themselves these questions: Am I right to expect this of myself? Are people right to expect that of me?

I can see how, especially for people who feel compelled to meet expectations, it might not even occur to them to stop and question them!

But as we mentioned before, in reality not all expectations are innocent, or benign. They can be, and often actually are, used to manipulate and coerce.

DANA: This is definitely a Rebel’s perspective! 😊

MARI: Well, I’d say it’s the simple truth! 😊 So we do need to challenge them. And I thought a lot about how we can discern whether a particular expectation is legitimate or illegitimate. And this is what I realized:

Legitimate expectations are those that naturally derive out of our identity. 

I have a whole article about this on my website, and we can post a direct link to it.

I give a lot of examples there, but here’s just a couple for now:

Let’s say my identity is that of a parent. It is a legitimate expectation that I fulfill my children’s needs.

Or let’s say I am a child. It is a legitimate expectation for me to obey my parents.

I think you can quickly see how that works 😊

I’m an employee. It’s legitimately expected of me to do the things written on my job description. I legitimately expect my employer to pay me a fair salary for my work, because that’s something that derives from their identity as an employer. Etc.

The great thing about these being tied to our identity is that it means they are no longer such a burden, even for Rebels. Rebels are all about identity, and when we focus on that as the source of the legitimate expectations, they start to bother us less and less.

In contrast to that, illegitimate expectations are arbitrary. Their source is just somebody’s arbitrary will, opinion or view of ‘how things should be’. It’s important here to say that illegitimate expectations are sometimes entrenched into a whole community, or society. 

DANA: Yes, even in  Christian communities – we both grew up in a legalistic church where expectations for women were to not wear jewellery or make-up etc.

So, not all expectations are created equal 😊

MARI: No. And besides arbitrary expectations, there are a couple of others, which are equally illegitimate: imaginary and unrealistic expectations.

The imaginary ones are a subspecies of outer expectations: it’s what we imagine other people want from us. I remember one time when I was away with my daughter visiting friends in another town. When we came back, my dear mother-in-law, who is an Obliger, came to pick us up from the train station. As we were getting into the car, she took out two big bags from her car boot: ‘Here you are my dear. I visited your house while you were away, and I took your laundry to get it washed. Here it is all washed and clean!’ 😆 

Oh my goodness. My mom-in-law doing my laundry was the last thing I would have wanted!! 🤣 I am very private when it comes to my things, and the very idea of somebody coming in my house and rummaging in my laundry basket just kills me!! I was so angry that all I could do was try and keep calm, I couldn’t even bring myself to say ‘thank you’! All I could say was ‘Oh, you shouldn’t have!’. And I meant it!! 😅

But see, what happened there was that she had been working hard to meet a completely imaginary expectation!! And unfortunately it backfired 😋 I do need to stress that my mother-in-law is a wonderful woman, and her help has been truly invaluable to our family over the years. I love her dearly, and I’m happy that in time we got to know each other much better and this kind of thing doesn’t happen these days 😊

Now, unrealistic expectations are often a type of inner expectation. I demand of myself so much, I hold myself to a certain standard, but never stop to evaluate whether what I’m expecting of myself is at all realistic!

For example, some time ago, I was really struggling to get our house organized. There’s a whole story around that, and you can find a few articles about it all on my website, but I was finding it really, really difficult. What never occurred to me was how unrealistic it was for me to expect of myself to keep all my things under control – because they were simply too many!! I had far too much stuff! I mean, even for a naturally organized person it would have been a huge challenge, nevermind for the likes of me! But I never realized how completely unrealistic it was until much later – and in the meantime I was creating a lot of resistance in myself towards tidying and organizing.

The important point here is that illegitimate expectations, be they arbitrary, imaginary or unrealistic, have no business being met. They have no business being around! Rather than worrying about them, we need to outright dismiss them!

It’s amazing how much pressure we can get rid of in our lives, just by busting all these illegitimate expectations. We can spare ourselves so much needless stress and hard work. 

We said a few times how Obligers often feel they don’t have time to fulfill their legitimate needs. But if they give up trying to meet illegitimate expectations, that often creates a lot of time and mental space! 😊

So the important thing to keep in mind is, just because an expectation exists, it does not automatically mean that it needs to be met! On the contrary, we are to exercise sharp discernment, and unmask, resist and reject all illegitimate expectations, whether they are arbitrary, imaginary or unrealistic.

DANA: I love that! We already touched on this a bit, but what difference would you say it makes for us to have self-awareness about our own Tendency?

MARI: I think it relates to what we mentioned before. When we become aware of what our natural impulses are, we can make them subject to Christ. We can start paying attention to our less-than-godly attitudes and patterns of behaviour. We can make use of our inclinations, or we can choose to overrule them, according to what is pleasing to the Lord.

An image I used before was that we are ‘swimming in a sea of expectations’. We can think of our tendencies as being strong marine currents. Sometimes joining the currents takes us more quickly to our destination. Other times, we need to change course if we don’t want to end up being caught in them and swept off to where we don’t want to go.

Because the truth is that we as humans are not just creatures of instinct, as animals are. We have been endowed by God with free will, and all our behaviours ultimately come from choices we make. Of course, I’m not talking about inadvertent behaviours, but deliberate ones. Still, we have a lot more choice about what we do than we sometimes realize.

Since the Four Tendencies are just instincts, it follows that, because we humans are not the slaves of our instincts, we are not the slaves of our Tendencies. We can choose to obey Jesus, no matter what our merely natural impulses are. The Holy Spirit uses and transforms our natural selves, according to the image of Christ.

DANA: What would you like people to take away from this session?

MARI: Our instinctive urges either to meet or to resist expectations give us very strong prompts towards different actions throughout the day. Take time to notice and observe your tendency to adopt certain attitudes and a certain course of action in response to expectations. 

Remind yourself that, because we are humans, we are endowed with something more than mere instinct as a basis for our choices! Start paying attention to this, and give yourself the grace of having a small pause between the moment you are faced with an expectation and the moment you choose how to act in response. You are not the slave of your instinct, you’re not the slave of your tendency 😊

The only good reason to meet an expectation is because it is a legitimate expectation. If it hasn’t passed the test, it needs to be debunked, and if you detect any guilt in your heart for not meeting an illegitimate expectation, reject it out of hand – it is false guilt. Replace it with the peace of knowing you are acting out of love, out of your identity and values.

When the new heaven and the new earth arrive, all expectations will have been brought to a close. All hopes and all requirements will have been fulfilled. We won’t have to jump through any hoops anymore 😊

What will remain, forever, is Love and our identity as God’s redeemed children.

DANA: Thank you so much! That’s really beautiful. Let me check if we have any questions in the comments. For people watching the replay, you can write questions for Mari, either here or in comments on her blog, at mariemilycraig.com. She’s looking forward to continuing the discussion on her website. Am I right, Mari?

MARI: Of course, it would be lovely to hear people’s comments on the blog articles.

DANA: If you’d like us to have this kind of conversation again, please let me know.

Ok, now the questions:

[There were no questions on the day. Please feel free to ask any questions about any of the ideas in this conversation either in Dana’s Facebook group, or on Mari’s blog.]

DANA: Thank you so much, Mari! I enjoyed everything you said, and I hope everyone watching this conversation has had some great insights. It will be really helpful for us if you share with us in the comments any insights and takeaways.

Mari, tell us again where people can find you. 

MARI: On my new website, mariemilycraig.com. If people go there, they’ll see in the top right hand corner a link that says ‘Start Here’. If you click on it, you’ll get to a page where I have an index of all the articles published so far, sorted according to the series they belong to, so you can read them in order if you prefer, or you can go directly to the ones you are interested in.

I’ll be posting one new article every Monday.

I have other plans for the website as well, such as an audio version of it and other things.

DANA: Great, thank you, Mari, and thank you everyone! Take care, God bless!

MARI: God bless!